Sunday, March 30, 2025

When Asian and European car makers have opened factories in various places around America, why didn't any of them choose to help revive Detroit...

 

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When Asian and European car makers have opened factories in various places around America, why didn't any of them choose to help revive Detroit...

Automotive

...by opening new factories (or taking over old factories) in Detroit?

Why would no European or Asian carmaker be willing to set up shop in Detroit, where the infrastructure ideal for supporting auto manufacturing, already exists?

 

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[–]Scorp128 138 points  

Limited desire for unionization as well in the south.

They also probably did not want to be close to the Big 3/their competition.

[–]bbtom78Transplanted 17 points  

I remember when the guy that was almost entirely decapitated at BMW Plant Spartanburg in South Carolina. It was big news in the area at the time. https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2018/04/02/bmw-plant-death-greer-sc/478669002/

I also remember three times that BMW employees had major medical events, such as a heart attack, on the line but the shift leaders would not shut down the line. The employees were pulled to the side and observed until EMS could get there.

I don't really recall these events happening in union plants. I'm not saying it was honky dory in a union plant, but from those I know that worked for Plant Spartanburg and plants for the Big Three, it was measurably safer at any major union manufacturing plant than the major non union ones.

[–]alexthebeast 6 points  

Idk, my dad worked at the rogue Ford plant in the 90s. He was on leave when the explosion happened thankfully, but I have heard crazy storys- like a dude who got his arm ripped off and the leads would not shut down the lines.

[–]CrossFire43East Village 2 points  

No trust me...some of the union plants have had issues in just the last year or 2. Dock workers injured or killed. Fires and other incidents as well. Thankfully though I say across the board union and non union it's way safer than what it used to be

[–]bz0hdp 1 point  

Except I'd much rather be in a union if this happened at my workplace than not.

[–]mcflycasualHazel Park 6 points  

Do they want people to be able to afford their vehicles?

I know Ford wasn't great but he had the right idea.

[–]DoxYourselfHighland Park 26 points  

He only agreed to the union when his wife threatened to leave him. There are very few good things about ford

[–]awoodby 17 points  

I mean, he did provide literal pro nazi brocures with his vehicles. Wealthy businessmen loving fascism isn't at all a New thing.

[–]mcflycasualHazel Park 1 point  

OH! I need to look this up.

[–]dende5416 5 points  

He was also very, very pro-Hitler

[–]AuburnSpeedster 3 points  

so Pro Hitler, he was awarded the Iron Cross by Germany.. and Hitler had a photo of him in his office, before the war.

[–]DoxYourselfHighland Park 6 points  

I work for ford and there are a lot of bs ford quotes the company puts up and it’s gross

[–][deleted]  

[deleted]

[–]DoxYourselfHighland Park 4 points  

Basically no one I work with knows that happened. I recently taught someone that republicans are anti union. The working class is mother fucked

[–]bz0hdp 3 points  

Glad to see another big 3 employee that gets it

[–]DoxYourselfHighland Park 2 points  

There are 2 others in my building

[–]bbtom78Transplanted 10 points  

"Creative financing" brought Volvo to SC. SC borrowed over $100 million in public financing to give Volvo in tax incentives.

[–]That_Shrub 25 points  

Same reason they outsource to places like Mexico -- fewer regulations to meet.

[–]Pitiful-MobileGamer 15 points  

Mexico was a taxation, employment and regulatory avoidance play. The original plants in the 60/70s produced export variants of American domestics, and even at a tariff import rate, it was better for the bottom line.

Canada was a little different, because of Auto-Pact. Our close proximity to Detroit, and agreed upon division of manufacturing jobs and process.

Over the years some of the highest selling American brands and models have been manufactured in Canadian factories.

Jeep Wrangler

Ford Windstar

Chrysler LH based sedans of the '90s, then the LX and later variations. Challenger, Charger, 300

RAV4

Ford Escort and the Tempo, plus the Mercury variants.

F series pickups

[–]Hugh-Mungus-Richard 5 points  

Wrangler and CJs has always been in Toledo.

[–]Pitiful-MobileGamer 5 points  

Toledo never stopped producing them, however for a few years there were manufactured in Brampton as well.

Brampton assembly produced 80,000 CJ5 and CJ7 from 1978 to 1981. That ended in 82 when AMC consolidated CJ production into Toledo

[–]Photodan24 2 points  

And have you seen their price?

According to C&D it's: $34,090–$101,990 (!!)

I don't know what the profit margin is for Stellantis, but as a consumer I can tell you they just aren't worth that much money. (unless you work on the line and get the employee discount... maybe)

[–]Hugh-Mungus-Richard 1 point  

They're horrible vehicles for around town or highways. Why they became a status symbol for suburban housewives I'll never know. I helped launch the JL line in 2018 and it was certainly a more refined Jeep than the JK it replaced but, still a Jeep.

[–]Lokomotive_Man 2 points  

*Chrysler minivan!

[–]utilitycoder -6 points  

Fewer regulations is a republican hallmark. Being in a Democrat run state prevented competition. We got what we voted for.

[–]That_Shrub 7 points  

Yeah, we got clean air and drinking water, and our biggest companies exploited lower income places because of it. That's fucked. But we DO still have cleaner air and drinking water...

If you have a solution where we get both and nobody suffers, I'm seriously all ears

[–][deleted] 1 point  

Ever been to Flint, MI?

[–]utilitycoder 0 points  

Have you never heard of Zug Island. It's usually the zip code with the worst air quality in the entire United States. And there are limits to how many fish you can eat from our lakes and rivers due to industrial pollution. Give me a break lol

[–]GrandeChocolate 4 points  

Yea because the companies polluting our water are democrat agents who hate the environment unlike republicans 🤡🤡. Jesus Christ do you even know how to google shit. People like you, and I don’t mean republicans, I mean morons who have access to information and choose not to use it should b sent to the mines.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047272722000901

https://environmentalcouncil.org/discover-post/under-threat-of-proverbial-flames/

[–]utilitycoder 1 point  

Ok Chester

[–]PiermontVillage 4 points  

Saying they are “not pro union” doesn’t cover it. They are virulently anti-union.

[–]Revenge_of_the_Khaki 10 points  

Many OEMs have flat out advertised that they are actively avoiding the UAW when they choose their plant locations. Even after Michigan went to a Right to Work state, it still didn’t attract plants because they all knew that the UAW would have their claws on most people who applied to work in a Michigan plant, so they didn’t want a vote for unionization years down the road.

[–]hamburglord 46 points  

the labor is more expensive, it is not "too" expensive. they consistently post record profits, quarter after quarter after quarter after year after year after year

[–]Ok_Shape88 3 points  

It’s almost as if currency has been inflating for the past 80 years

[–]Chefbigandtall 3 points  

Bit of both I think lol.

[–]red_spray 0 points  

Nah. They prolly make to much.

[–]IllStickToTheShadows -7 points  

They have a high school diploma and making more than nurses lol

[–]DMCinDetRosedale Park 25 points  

then nurses need to demand higher pay. it's not that complicated.

also, the majority of UAW labor workers are not making more than the majority of nurses.

[–]RagnaNic 15 points  

Yeah, “making more than nurses” is one of those right wing talking points.

[–]IllStickToTheShadows 1 point  

Yeah they are. I used to be a nurse and a guy who was my assistant quit and began working at Stellantis. Instantly made more than what I was making as a nurse in Detroit with a bachelors degree..

[–]sack-o-matic 2 points  

The automotive industry is heavily inflated due to our reliance on suburban infrastructure.

[–]BlatantFalsehoodtransplanted -3 points  

If it's so heavily inflated, what's with the record profits?

[–]sack-o-matic -1 points  

The profits are caused by how so many people are forced into a suburban lifestyle requiring the use of cars to participate in your community as opposed to being able to walk or bike places.

[–]IllStickToTheShadows 1 point  

Nobody is forcing you lmfaooo.

[–]realandmagnificent -2 points  

people are “forced into a suburban lifestyle? Good god, people have control of their own lives. No one forces you where to live or work. You wake up every day and decide how hard you will work and based on your success where you will work. stop being a victim.

[–]sack-o-matic 0 points  

No one forces an individual where to live but the government is forcing what can be built. Supply of other types of housing has been heavily restricted for decades in favor of detached suburban housing.

When the supply of a certain type of good is restricted, the price goes up relative to alternative goods. This is an artificial market force on people determining where they can afford to live.

[–]GQod_OX 1 point  

Government ain’t forcing that. Developers make a hell of a lot more money building subdivisions than apartments.

[–]sack-o-matic 2 points  

Look at your municipal zoning code and the codes of the municipalities in the region.

[–]BlatantFalsehoodtransplanted 1 point  

Yeah? So nurses should fucking unionize and strike.

Why the fuck do people think they deserve to be poor?

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -30 points  

Welp… when the union workers have an equivalent skill set to working at 7-11 but they expect to make 6 figures, have platinum health care and a pension with an eighth grade education… there might be something out of whack

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -11 points  

Value is based on scarcity, if diamonds were as prevalent and easy to get as pebbles they would be worth the same as pebbles are today. Similarly, value of someone’s labor is based on how difficult it is to find someone with that skill set. If everyone was a neurosurgeon but no one knew how to do plumbing, the handful of plumbers would make bank. This isn’t an altruistic view, it is realistic.

If you take someone off the street with no skills, put them on an assembly line there is absolutely no reason they should make 6 figures and have a pension and spectacular healthcare.

It would be nice if everyone could have a comfortable life, with healthcare and retirement paid for… and there are systems that have tried that and it ends up with loss of freedom as the downside (not to mention they don’t work as efficiently as Capitalism).

I agree with your statement that it “should” be that way, but that doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t that way.

[–]klone_free 5 points  

But billionaire is the scariest job there is!

[–]DirkBeligSt. Clair Shores -9 points  

I know being a Communist is a requirement to be on Reddit but believing that billionaires are hoarding the money & making people poor is like believing that obesity is caused by skinny people refusing to carry their fair share of weight.

[–]DontKnowWhyImHereee 3 points  

Not even the same comparison. There is no limit to human weight on earth as a whole. However, there IS a limit to resources. Everyone isn't getting the same sized slice of the pizza. In order for me to get 2 slices, someone else has to get none. It's a simple analogy to understand

[–]DirkBeligSt. Clair Shores -4 points  

I know understanding economics is impossible when you're a Communist, but the economy is NOT a zero sum game. You are perfectly illustrating the ignorance and/or retardation of too many people who are easily inflamed into believing Communism is the solution for the fact that some people have more than others. You can't believe that anyone has worked harder or provided more goods and services than deadbeat moochers who whine about how unfair it is they're not rich too. "No, they STOLE the money from the poor!"

The economy is NOT a pizza where there are 8 slices to feed everyone. You are a slave to an envy peasant mentality in which you believe the rich are rich because they stole from the poor when in reality the Evil 1% pay over 40% of all Federal income taxes while the bottom 50% pay only 3%. You are consumed by envy where you are happy to be poorer as long as an Evil Rich Person is less rich. You'd cut off your nose if it mean Elon got a zit on his.

Going out on a limb & assuming you actually work and not just sponge off someone else who works, did a poor person give you that job or one of the rich people you accuse of eating all the pizza? Jeff Bezos is worth $210B (after giving half his fortune to his ex), but Amazon has over 1.5M employees globally. That's 1.5M people able to support themselves & their families (countdown to "Amazon pays slave wages!!!" in 3....2.....1....) because a guy decided to sell books on the new thing called the Internet 30 years ago. You'd rather 1.5M people be in the street begging for alms just to make sure a Bezos didn't happen.

When Bernie Sanders became you losers' deity in 2016, I ran the numbers on his Commie nonsense. If you confiscated every single penny of the accumulated wealth of the Forbes 400 Richest People list and taxed the Evil 1%'s income at 100% (what's the word for people who work without being paid? Starts with an S....), the haul would fund the US Federal Budget for only EIGHT MONTHS. (And this was in the pre-TrumpBidenflation times when the budget was only $3.9T, not $6.9T.)

Completely mugging the Evil Rich wouldn't even get you a full year of government, so HTAF do you fund all the socialism you deadbeat moochers demand by "making the Evil Rich pay their fair share" when completely robbing them - something you would only be able to do ONCE - doesn't cover the tab?

The irony of you Commie envy peasants who rage again corporate CEOs who make more than twice what the lowest-paid worker makes is that while you load your diaper that Walmart's CEO makes $25M while running a global company with over 2M employees, you'd celebrate if the Tigers bought Shohei Ohtani's contract and paid him $100M to go to the World Series.

Weird how it's OK for celebrities to become billionaires for themselves - Jay-Z is worth $2.5B, Taylor Swift $1.6B, Rihanna $1.4B - but not entrepreneurs who make it possible for hundreds of thousands of people to have jobs.

Ignorance is a curable disease, but stupidity is terminal. You've just been given a dose of cure for the former. You're welcome.

[–]Shitpostsonly- 1 point  

In this thread you conflate socialism, communism, and authoritarian dictatorships. We won't get into that.

Anyway, I think you're being downvoted for your tone, and it's really diluting the point you're trying to make.

A note on Walmart - that's a funny choice. Y'know, the company notorious for having its employees on food stamps and manipulating employees' schedules to keep them part-time and avoid paying out benefits. But yeah, their CEO is "earning" $25M. Surely, you can understand the point someone is making when they say the CEO doesn't deserve that much if the taxpayers(you) are subsidizing his workforce. If you can't, then you're more brainwashed than the "comrades"

Can we go back to the math you did on taxing the 1% at 100%? No one is arguing for that - but did you calculate the tax rate on the 1% (while keeping tax rates on the 99% same) in order to "balance the budget" per se? In America's 'gilded age' (of robber barons), the 1% were taxed at 70%+ and the whole country thrived. That much is undeniable.

[–][deleted]  

[deleted]

[–]DirkBeligSt. Clair Shores -1 points  

Listen, komrade, you're the one whose mind is broken because you've chose to enslave yourself to a failed philosophy which has killed over 100 million people in the last century, but you believe that your socialist utopia is just another bullet away.

Scarcity doesn't apply to money, you dolt. With our fraudulent fiat currency system money is created out of thin air. The reason our economy is collapsing under inflation isn't because the Evil Rich People hoard all the cash in their Scrooge McDuck money vaults but because Trump & Biden decided to print TRILLIONS of dollars in funny money to finance the Scamdemic lockdowns and pay off cronies and NGOs.

So we have textbook inflation where too much money is chasing too few goods. That's the actual scarcity in the system, not money. The Biden Regime genocided the egg-laying chickens and now a cheap form of protein that used to be cheap enough to be used for casual vandalism is now a luxury item. Musk and Bezos hogging the cash isn't why eggs are expensive. (Also you need to put down the Marx and Zinn books and learn what paper wealth is for the Evil Rich.)

What's hilarious about your slave mentality and tragic ignorance is that on one hand you believe high prices are solely due to corporate greed and due to scarcity of money not supply of products. (Ask any PC gamer about GPU prices.) You believe in so many wrong things that your silly bleat that I'm the one who needs to adjust my mindset was a hoot.

How much student debt did you rack up to become that stupid, komrade? And which coffee place are you a barista at with that degree? LOLOLOLOL!🤪

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -1 points  

Wait, are you saying value isn’t determined by scarcity? Do I have another taker that is willing to trade me pebbles for diamonds pound for pound?

Setting that truth aside (that if you don’t have a scarce skill, your labor isn’t very valuable) which is the fundamental issue at stake but I don’t think you’ll be able to disagree with that point while saving a semblance of self respect…

If it is only because of the greedy “Billionaires” who are the greedy billionaires that are running the 7-11 or gas stations franchises who determine what to pay their attendants… or any other industry that employees unskilled labor?

If all you can offer is the same as any other random person on the street it isn’t a Billionare’s fault that you’re not well compensated for your time

[–]Shitpostsonly- 1 point  

There's so much to unpack here. The whole paradigm of this thinking is flawed.
How did you live through covid and maintain this mindset?
Remember "essential employees" - if service industry workers are so essential to modern life, why are so many paid so poorly?

If USA purports itself to be "the greatest country ever" and if capitalism is such a perfect system, then surely every adult with a job should be able to enjoy a modest standard of living. That should be the bare minimum.

Look to history. Every labor law has been written in blood. Why do you think that this? It must be because capitalists are so gracious and benevolent (/s).

As a society, we need to reevaluate this system and ask ourselves what really matters.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 1 point  

“Essential employees” was such a ridiculous term, but it included vast swaths of society from teachers to brain surgeons. It was more about the impact of not having them on site than the value and thus the cost of their labor. Furthermore, just because something isn’t scarce doesn’t mean it’s not intrinsically valuable. Water is intrinsically valuable to people, we can’t live without it, but it is so plentiful that it doesn’t cost much. There are two definitions of “value” going on here; Value meaning worth in terms of cost, and value meaning worth in terms of utility.

Capitalism isn’t a perfect system. In fact, it’s demonstrably the worst economic system, except for all of the other ones people have tried. It’s based on greed, and the fact that people can be relied on to primarily look after their own interests.

I don’t disagree that it would be nice for everyone to have an average standard of living. It just isn’t realistic. Even if it could be achievable for the US, people living at the poverty line in the US are still in the top 1% globally.

In any case, my point was the reason manufacturing jobs aren’t coming to the Midwest is because of the cost implications that the UAW represents. I agree that unions have been a positive force in society, I appreciate the 40 hour / 5 day work week which 100% is the result of labor unions. Child labor laws and other protections are part of what makes us a civilized society. I also think they represent challenges, when they protect poor performing employees for example. They also make labor more expensive, so companies will locate in areas that it is less likely they will be involved.

[–][deleted] 16 points  

Diamonds are as easy to get as pebbles, the entire diamond market is inflated based on marketing. We have the technology to easily make diamonds from carbon all the time. I stopped reading after that because it's clear you have no actual knowledge just regurgitation of conservative talking points.

[–]generic-user66Metro Detroit 11 points  

Yeah, that was not a good example.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -7 points  

What are you talking about, a 1 karat diamond costs about $1,000.

If you think pebbles are worth that, I’m your new best friend. I have several cubic yards of pebbles that I’ll sell you at half of market value.

My point remains that value is determined by scarcity. The fact that you didn’t have anything counter to say means you agree that you aren’t arguing from a position that is in touch with reality.

I agree… your version of reality is definitely nicer, but it’s not real

[–][deleted] 6 points  

That's what it costs to the consumer because of artificial marketing and cabalistic behavior, it costs pennies to make an artificial diamond, next time do a better Google search before sprouting off. And my version of reality is realistic because we have had it before with ease from the late 1940s until the Reagan administration we had all those things. Again, you are digging yourself into a hole proving you have no idea of history nor economy.

[–]BasilAccomplished488 2 points  

The way we measure the value of resources, like diamonds, is quite different from how we determine the value of labor, such as that of a UAW member.

Both involve scarcity, but when it comes to labor, several other factors come into play. Things like supply and demand (which relates to scarcity), productivity, where the job is located, government policies, and how the market views the profession all have an impact.

[–]HiLineKid 4 points  

You're a moron repeating memes spread by billionaires.

You clearly have zero understanding of how money works in reality. I'd suggest you start by reading David Graeber's 'Debt: The First 5,000 Years.' But I'm guessing you don't really read or have more than the high school education you're mocking others for having.

You're like the poor white farmers in the South who fought and died to continue slavery. They could rent a slave, maybe buy a slave or two eventually. But they thought they could become a planter with 200 slaves if they just worked hard and saved.

I.e. you're clearly a white, American male who thinks he is one great idea away from being a billionaire. I hate to be the one to break the news, but Google, Apple, and Amazon didn't start in a garage. They were founded at elite institutions with connections to individuals at other elite institutions.

Poverty is literally a legislative choice, dumbass. 90% of stocks are currently owned by 10% of people. It used to be that 90% of stocks were owned by 90% of people. Why is that?

People like you are why $50T has been funneled from the middle-class to the 1% since Reagan. Absolute morons speaking with authority on topics they've never studied.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -1 points  

I grew up in Detroit, I went to Cooke Elementary and graduated from Redford High. I’ve also worked in the auto industry my whole life. Don’t you presume to know anything about me. If you are failing to ad hominem attacks, that just buttresses the validity of my argument.

Specific to Graeber’s book, I’m not sure why a politically motivated Anthropologist be qualified to speak about economics… however, there critiques by actual economists which would be interesting for you to consider if you are approaching it in the pursuit of truth; you can start here

[–]HiLineKid 6 points  

You went straight to a scholar who is advocating for abolishing all taxes. Good Lord.

[–]HiLineKid 2 points  

Economics?! Are we referencing Adam Smith now? Or maybe Milton Friedman's lemonade stand theories? You're just sharing information written by people who were paid by billionaires to share the billionaires' message.

STFU about ad hominem attacks when you're insulting your colleagues. All you did was go to "www.IamRight.com" in order to regurgitate more information you haven't taken any time to consider.

Stop doing the bidding of billionaires. They hate you. You're nothing but a useful idiot to them.

You have a Detroit high school education, and you're posturing like you're better than the people who are the same as you. You hate yourself for not being elite instead of hating the power elites who have caused unspeakable suffering with their greedy policies.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 0 points  

I’m doing nothing if the sort, I don’t think the money we make, the house we live in or the number of 0’s in our bank accounts define our intrinsic value. We all have innate value as humans. However, we aren’t discussing that so don’t get it twisted. We are talking about the value people confer on our labor. Which like everything else people purchase is defined by scarcity.

[–]HiLineKid 4 points  

Human beings evolved through cooperation. Humans thrive through cooperation. Value is not defined through scarcity. That was told to you by men who use force to exploit.

Your sense of history is textbook. No awareness of the Global South, imperialistic colonialism, nor any of the five epochs of militaristic capitalism in the USA.

[–]DMCinDetRosedale Park 12 points  

you're so right. multi-billion dollar, international businesses shouldn't pay good wages to their employees. OK, maybe the desk jockeys should get paid, but not the ones doing the physical labor. right? ....

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park -3 points  

What up Rosedale, I’m from Outer Drive & Verne…

Wages are naturally determined by scarcity. I believe that unions have had a majorly positive impact on society as a whole, and there certainly are cases where they still do today. That being said, I believe wages are naturally determined by scarcity of skillset. If I have a skill that is unique and desired, I will be able to demand a high wage. If I don’t, I won’t. Comparing the NBA with the G-league as one of myriad of examples.

Taking a random person off the street who only possesses the skill of following instructions and doing manual labor should not mean they deserve a high wage. If they quit they are easy to replace. If someone is at a desk in the front office and they are similarly easy to replace (perhaps in accounting or HR) they also wouldn’t deserve a high wage. Perhaps someone with leadership skills and the ability to run a successful plant operation would be a smaller candidate pool and they would naturally deserve a higher wage.

The exception is when there is an artificial influence on that. Unions and the legislative structure around them create an unnatural positive influence on compensation.

The question was related to why new plants aren’t being built in Detroit and the Midwest. If a company can select where to go, they will clearly opt for places where those factors are less impactful.

[–]DMCinDetRosedale Park 7 points  

people with valuable, hard to replace skills do earn a higher wage. that doesn't mean they can't pay labor workers when they profit billions every quarter.

we agree. They chose non union states out of greed.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 1 point  

It isn’t greed when someone makes a decision that is in the best interest of their organization. It’s the same reason they work to get every other critical component required to build a car for as little money as possible. They don’t overpay for a hose and they don’t overpay for labor. It is called fiduciary responsibility, and if decision makers don’t do that it’s literally something that can land them in court.

If you don’t see that, perhaps there’s a reason they are where they are… and you are where you are

[–]DMCinDetRosedale Park 2 points  

so greed. mandatory greed. more more more. that's the real problem. they are in the business of more at the cost of a quality product or the quality of people's lives. fuck everything for more money.

where I am? living in the same neighborhood as you? I'm just a guy trying to live and enjoy the short life we all get. Nothing in me desires to be a greedy billionaire asshole that has no empathy or care for anything other than money. I'm fine with where I am. It's sad that people desire where they are.

[–]StoneDick420 2 points  

You’re repeating business tenets as if they should be a lifestyle for everyone.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 2 points  

Isn’t that literally the topic? Why don’t businesses build factories in the Midwest? Business tenets are the only answer, except for those who are pontificating, grand standing or hallucinating

[–]HiLineKid 0 points  

How do those boots taste?

This fucking guy does not know that socialist policies are what created the American middle-class, nor that $50T was funneled away from the middle-class back to the 1%.

It would be funny that idiots are always super confident but it's dangerous. Poverty is not a moral failing. Poverty is a form of violence enforced by people who control armies.

[–]mcflycasualHazel Park 0 points  

At some point they need to shrink the profit margins otherwise people won't be able to afford anything.

[–]Radiant-Present-9376 -14 points  

It's not cheap to produce things here, but the flip side is that American manufacturing is world class. You have to think of labor and manufacturing quality like you're shopping for groceries. Great Value brand is cheaper, but the quality of Great Value Walmart products is not same the as their competitors. Does it work? Sure. But the quality of more expensive labor is worth it to a lot of companies. The workers with auto experience are here, but it's expensive because it's high quality manufacturing and labor.

Can it be done in China and Mexico? Sure, but the quality is not the same. Unfortunately, Korean autos and Mexican manufacturing is catching up somewhat. When you're dealing with $30,000 cars, it does matter. However, even cheap cars are still useful and there is a market for it.

The other thing is that Ford, GM and Chrysler are stagnant when it comes to new ideas. Tesla (forget about how you feel about Elon for a second) actually does use a lot of Detroit manufacturing anyway, though, because we have experienced auto workers. My team at Oakwood Group made many of their interior parts because the manufacturing infrastructure and workers are already here.

But what I'm getting at is that it's more expensive here because experienced auto workers are here and our labor and facilities are higher quality than other places. Do you want a cheap car or do you want a high quality car? It's up to the company and some choose Detroit (like Tesla) and some choose cheaper offshore labor.

[–]Otiskuhn11 17 points  

The big three continually churn out some of the least reliable cars on the planet. Wheres the “high quality”?

[–]Radiant-Present-9376 -7 points  

I don't expect you to understand this, but that's on engineering and not really on the assembly line workers. As I said, the big 3 are very stagnant when it comes to engineering and execution. The infrastructure, workers and facilities are not the reason why Chrysler can't make an engine worth a damn.

[–]TheSpatulaOfLove 11 points  

I wouldn’t put that squarely on engineering. It’s in design review when the bean counters get their hands on the design demanding cost reduction and is incentivized for short term thinking. That’s on management, not engineering.

[–]Radiant-Present-9376 -4 points  

Sure, it's probably both. But the workers are not the issue. The rank and file labor isn't the issue.

[–]Ok_Shape88 3 points  

A lot of big three products are engineered to scalable so in that sense they’re less thoughtful about every model, but they aren’t thoughtless. The build quality of the big 3 is markedly poorer than most foreign competitors and that is happening in the manufacturing process.

[–]Ok_Bodybuilder_155 -49 points  

The UAW is actively pursuing union formation at all plants within the United States. Lick a boot, scab.

[–]ideologicSprocket 34 points  

The poster wasn’t in favor or against unions in their comment. They were just stating facts. Chill dude.

[–]kombitcha420Hamtramck 12 points  

They were stating a fact, they didn’t say they supported it. Calm down.

[–]blkswn6 22 points  

It can be true that we like unions and the protections they provide (and would like to see them at all factories!) while also acknowledging that they are viewed as objectively bad to the c-suite at these multibillion dollar corporations. Grow up.

[–]IveGotATinyRick 20 points  

Gets called a scab for stating an objective fact without the slightest hint of opinion… This is why unions are losing respect with the general public.

[–]steel_city86 2 points  

Wages are probably the most obvious reason. But you can't ignore other rules from the UAW that limit OEMs. There are significant restrictions put on vehicle design and assembly based on ergo requirements etc. Tesla can assemble vehicles in a manner that the Detroit 3 cannot as easily. Not saying that Tesla is right here, just that for the Detroit 3 I think a level playing field for competition is something desired.

[–]vsnine 1 point  

US management people are probably formerly of the big 3 or others and don't have the same mentality as the EU folks.

[–]utilitycoder 5 points  

Lived in Tennessee. All the people working for Nissan are making a very good living also no state income tax. Need to rethink things here in MI.

[–]ucantharmagoodwoman -2 points  

I'm referring to places like India and China, but the cost and quality of living in both states are pretty similar, with Michigan being slightly better. This was not the case when the workforce in Michigan was more unionized. Working families in Michigan did much better, then.

[–]BetsRduke 14 points  

Starting with Reagan it was the conversion to a shareholder economy. In the 50s and 60s it was a workers economy and those workers were able to buy houses, etc. Then with the Reagan tax cuts and further deregulation in the 90s during the Clinton administration the move was made to a shareholder economy. Shareholder’s rule don’t you know Look at President musk crying about the Tesla stock value. This is a guy that’s laid off thousands of people let kids go hungry stopped meals for senior citizens but he’s crying about his shareholder value

[–]Hugh-Mungus-Richard 5 points  

Things were only good in the 50s and 60s because we were spared the harsh realities of WW2 unlike the majority of Europe.

[–]utilitycoder 5 points  

Dodge v Ford 1919 not Reagan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 21 points  

Three letters: UAW

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[–]Nasty_Tricks69Wayne County 11 points  

They're unionized in Europe, but not over here. The Volkswagon plant in Tennessee just recently voted to unionize

[–]thewildrose 9 points  

Not in the US though. They can open non-union plants in non-union states, which is why all the European automakers operate in the South.

[–]Cereal____KillerRosedale Park 2 points  

Very few in the US are unionized; in Germany the workers council has a number of seats on the VW board but the VW plant in Chattanooga just voted the union in this year. The Mercedes plant in NJ just rejected a union attempt. Their European operations may be unionized but they fight unionization in the US

[–]Tojuro 1 point  

It's not really the UAW, it's the fact that each state has different laws and unions have more or less support by the people. It has more to do with the lack of support for worker rights in Southern states.

Most of the developed world has strong support for unions at a national level. After WWiI, when Germany and Japan were effectively under the control of US military generals, they made sure to build support for unions, effectively working people, into the new governments.

[–]Fast_Edd1e 2 points  

Just to comment on "infrastructure" or "taking over old factories". Re-using an old factory for a new process is expensive and usually cheaper to build somewhere new. Between floor plan for the new production, or making sure the buildings equipment is up to code or quality for the new production in an old building is highly unlikely. Additionally, they have to deal with site contamination and remediation that is expensive with an existing site.

Tossing up a new "butler" building or similar simple clear span structure on a new site would likely be cheaper in the long run. Which is disappointing to residents who are often stuck with abandoned and contaminated existing sites.

[–]Bjorn74 2 points  

Absolutely this. I grew up there in that era.

[–]ike9211 1 point  

Cheaper and I can't see them caring about the state of Detroit anyways

[–]Nottingham11000 1 point  

I’ll take a stretch but it was really the south and it’s benefit that it could provide capital investment and tax subsidies to the corporations for large scale manufacturing while Detroit had no ability to provide that….

I think R&D for automotive manufacturing is still prominent. I believe Toyota has an R&D facility outside of Ann Arbor to pick off the cheap recent graduate from U of M labor

[–]GammaHunt 2 points  

Pretty simple labor was too expensive compared to Asia or Mexico. Companies need to cut costs = move factories overseas. Asian companies based in Asia prefer to build cars in Asia and import them to USA

[–]GammaHunt 3 points  

Also as Chinese steel became cheaper and cheaper only made sense that factories adjacent to china would start to become more profitable

[–]MIGoneCamping 3 points  

Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, VW, Honda, Toyota and Nissan chose places where the UAW was weak and wouldn't have to pay union wages or be restricted by union work rules. Mind you both Euro and Japanese mfgs have unionized plants at home. My impression is that the European unions are far less antagonistic than the UAW. They see success of the company as benefiting everyone. Not sure about the Japanese unions.

[–]UnwroteNoteRochester 1 point  

Unions in European countries typically have strong nationwide protections backed by law and governments that don't actively work against them.

Corporations would just as easily screw them at home if they could, but they have governments that don't cave every time a multinational company complains about regulations.

We can't even get the most basic of PTO policies without hemming and hawing and compromising with corporate trade groups.

Unions in the US push back against a constant onslaught of corporate bullshit and they’re called “antagonistic”.

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[–]Level-Worldliness-20 -4 points  

Detroit is too corrupt

[–]JimGordonsKnife 12 points  

Yeah, no auto industry talent in the region.

What else are you uninformed about?

[–]gerryf19 10 points  

Fiction. Detroit has a ready built workforce and it and the surrounding area has a lot to offer....this is a cost issue only.

[–]DMCinDetRosedale Park 5 points  

talent and quality of life.. like in Mississippi? Alabama? yeah, thats gotta be it. 2 of the least educated states, that's where the talent is.

[–]RagnaNic 2 points  

They’re leading the country in cousin marriages.

[–]hamburglord 7 points  

"doesnt have quality of life incentives compared to" they are building plants in alabama

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