Wednesday, March 19, 2025

Is there, or has there EVER been a motorhome dependability study like this vehicle dependability study by JD Power?

 

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Is there, or has there EVER been a motorhome dependability study like this vehicle dependability study by JD Power?

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r/RVLiving - Is there, or has there EVER been a motorhome dependability study like this vehicle dependability study by JD Power?

If not, how would I know what makes of motorhome are the most reliable like how Lexus and Toyota are some of the most reliable makes of everyday vehicles out there?

I only want a used motorhome that's as reliable as a Toyota / Lexus, so I wish there was an objective rating of all motorhome brands by reliability. Does said objective rating for motorhomes exist anywhere?

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[–]_Dingaloo 1 point  

fr. Like okay, I believe volkswagon, I know people that have had them. The pain in the ass is getting them repaired, but they almost never needed repairs.

But jeep as #3??? I've never heard of a jeep that wasn't breaking down by 100k miles

Toyota as one of the least reliable??? I've known multiple people that have only owned toyotas and didn't need anything other than oil changes and tires until it hit 200k miles. I don't think I've known any other brand of car that has gone that far.

[–]MisoHungry83 9 points  

You're reading the graph wrong. It's ranked least to greatest for number of problems per 100 cars. More reliable, lower the score.

[–]_Dingaloo 3 points  

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That makes a lot more sense, thanks for pointing that out

[–]MisoHungry83 2 points  

Sometimes, graphs need to be more descriptive like "lower is better". It's easy to misinterpret.

[–]bubbleheadmonkey 1 point  

Graph states at the top problems per 100 vehicles.

[–]deadwood76 17 points  

JD Power is not an accurate representation.

[–][deleted] 3 points  

Why?

[–]LibsKillMe -8 points  

J.D. Power conducts customer satisfaction research and publishes rankings and awards based on surveys, focusing on industries like automotive, insurance, and more, to help companies improve products and services. Here's a more detailed breakdown of how J.D. Power works:1. Customer Satisfaction Research:

  • Surveys: J.D. Power conducts extensive surveys with consumers to gather feedback on their experiences with various products and services.
  • Data Collection: They collect data on a wide range of factors, including quality, reliability, customer service, and overall satisfaction.
  • Industry Benchmarking: The gathered data is used to create industry benchmarks, providing a framework for companies to measure their performance against competitors. 
  1. Types of Studies:
  • Automotive:
    • Initial Quality Study (IQS): Measures problems experienced by owners within the first 90 days of ownership. 
    • Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS): Focuses on problems experienced over the first three years of ownership. 
    • Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study: Reflects consumer attitudes towards a vehicle's attributes, dealership service, and the customer purchasing experience. 
  • Other Industries: J.D. Power also conducts studies in various other industries, including insurance, finance, and more. 
  1. Data Analysis and Reporting:
  • Ratings and Rankings: J.D. Power analyzes the survey data to generate ratings and rankings, providing insights into which products and services excel in customer satisfaction. 
  • Awards: They present awards to top-performing companies and products in various categories. 
  • Reports and Insights: J.D. Power publishes reports and insights based on their research, which are used by companies to improve their products and services. 
  1. How J.D. Power Makes Money:
  • Data Licensing: J.D. Power's primary revenue source is from selling data and insights to companies for internal use.
  • Licensing Fees: Companies that want to use J.D. Power's logo and results in advertising must pay a licensing fee. 

[–]_B_Little_me 4 points  

You didn’t answer. This is just a ChatGPT copy paste of what JD power is.

[–]bspunch 2 points  

Follow the money. Who pays JD Power? Did you have to pay to get the list? If not, then business are paying to leverage the rankings as a form of advertising and marketing. Its useless. Reminds me of the who’s who list. Pay $1000 and will name you who’s who of Bay Area tech leaders.

[–]Infuryous 2 points  

The problem with JD Powers (and others) "Quality Surveys", they report total problems, not severity

A car with a 5% transmission failure rate will be ranked better than one with a 10% failure of a piece of trim falling off.

Think I would prefer to deal.with gluing a piece of trim than a failed teansmission.

[–]Avery_Thorn 7 points  

There simply aren’t enough motorhomes built each year. In 2021, they shipped just under 60,000 motorhomes. That sounds like a lot, but Ford sold just under 500,000 F150 trucks that year. It is such a tiny market.

At least in the US, there are a very limited number of chassis available for RVs, and in terms of drivetrain reliability, any RV built on the same chassis is going to be about the same.

Of course, the higher end RVs based on commercial bus chassis will be a lot more durable than the van based or medium duty truck based RVs. For most use cases, it doesn’t matter that much, because they only get used a few thousand miles a year.

[–]PlanetExcellent 2 points  

Are you talking about mechanical reliability? If so, the motorhome brand doesn’t matter much because most are built on the same 3-4 chassis. Why compare three different motorhomes that are all built on a Ford F-53 chassis?

Or are you talking about measuring other repairs to things like the furnace, toilet, refrigerator, etc.? Again, most of these appliances are made by the same few manufacturers.

Or are you talking about the frequency of overall workmanship issues like “storage compartment door does not close properly” or “cabinet trim came loose”?

[–]Character_Pipe336 1 point  

I would like all of the items you list to work in a motorhome. That is a huge part of the issue, everyone blames everyone else for the shit product the rolls off the lines. I have never purchased any car that was "expected" to have problems by the builder. This is every rv from tiny TT to a huge motorhome.
I went to an rv show over the weekend and the sad quality issues in new equipment convinced me AirBnB is a more cost effective and reliable solution to travel. Very disappointing and gross that people pay so much for something that is falling apart and worthless in 5-7 years.

[–]PlanetExcellent 2 points  

You’re right. That’s why so many people are not buying a new RV, and instead buying an older luxury unit that was built well to begin with and has had any problems sorted out since then. Personally I’d like a 2000-ish Prevost bus conversion.

By the way, are you familiar with AZExpert on YouTube? He’s your guy.

[–]AssignmentClean8726 1 point  

What about Newmar?

[–]PlanetExcellent 1 point  

I like those too

[–]gopiballava 2 points  

My motorhome was built on a Ford chassis. There is zero chance that it can be as reliable as Toyota.

What you want is impossible. Motorhomes are all built on vehicle platforms that are less reliable than your goal.

[–]nanneryeeter 0 points  

V10 has entered the chat.

[–]BoondockUSA 3 points  

No, they wouldn’t. That would mean a complete redesign of the motorhome because the frames, mounting points, and cabs are different between the chassis brands. They can’t simply swap chassis and expect the body mounts, tank mounts, power supply wires, cab body lines, etc, to be in the same location (because they won’t be).

Motorhome manufacturers aren’t currently losing money when there is a chassis reliability issue. They would be losing money with a complete redesign every couple of years.

[–]djinn6 1 point  

Of course it's going to take an investment to switch. That's why the prerequisite is customers caring about it. Did you even read my comment?

They would be losing money with a complete redesign every couple of years.

Do they do this now with Ford? If not, why would they need to do this with Toyota?

[–]BoondockUSA 1 point  

You are thinking in terms of cars that undergo significant changes every 5 years on average so they stay enticing to the average retail car buyer.

Truck chassis cabs are intentionally the opposite. Truck chassis cabs can go without major frame, suspension, and drivetrain changes for time given in the decades. Most chassis cab buyers are for commercial uses like ambulances, tow trucks, moving trucks, “cube vans”, service trucks, utility trucks, etc. These specialized body builders and subsequent commercial truck owners hate major changes as it costs everyone involved a lot of money (including the body builder, the equipment builders, the accessory builders, maintainers of the trucks for needing new training/tools/parts, etc). Sure, cab appearances may change a little throughout the years, but that’s just appearances (aka “putting lipstick on a pig”). Sure, there might be an infrequent drivetrain change, but that doesn’t affect the frame or body mounting points. Some of the chassis don’t even include the cab, so it eliminates even the cab changes. Even a lot of the chassis components don’t change, such as a set of front brake pads for a 2025 E series chassis cab being the same all the way back to the 2008 model year.

As an another example of how little things change, Ford kept building the V10 gas engine just for chassis cabs for an extra 9 years after they quit offering them in their F250 and F350 pickups. As yet another example, Ford ended the production of E series passenger and cargo vans in 2014 in favor of the Transit series, but they still continue to produce the E series in the “cutaway” version for the chassis cab market. As a fun bit of trivia about the E series, it hasn’t changed generationally since 1992. Meanwhile, the F series pickups has had 6 generational changes since 1992, and the Toyota Camry has had 7 generational changes.

As another point, you mentioned Toyota by name. There aren’t that many options for motorhome chassis cabs. Toyota doesn’t make them. Honda doesn’t make them. Nissan doesn’t make them. The options are Ford, GM, Ram, and to a lesser extent, Mercedes with the Sprinter chassis cab. Out of those, Ford is the most popular. There aren’t any more serious options than that until you get into diesel motorhomes based on heavy duty commercial truck chassis.

So to summarize, motorhome manufacturers aren’t having to do a complete structural redesign every few years to conform to any chassis changes because the chassis aren’t undergoing frequent changes. They would however have to do structural and equipment redesigns, and new certification and quality control testing, if they switched chassis brands. And if they switched brands, it’s not going to be a newsworthy brand change (such as going from Ford to Toyota) because most automakers don’t make chassis cabs.

[–]djinn6 1 point  

You seem to know a lot about how RVs are put together. Unfortunately, you're still missing my point.

You are thinking in terms of cars that undergo significant changes every 5 years on average so they stay enticing to the average retail car buyer.

Nowhere did I say that. I suggested a one-time change, not one every few years.

A more reliable drivetrain and chassis is not available on the market because buyers don't demand it. If they are willing to pay 25% or more for a more reliable product (which they do for cars), then it will be made. In fact the more reliable manufacturers will drive the rest out of business (notice how there isn't a single American compact car maker left).

Everything you mentioned are problems for the manufacturer to figure out, which they will... if there's an incentive.

[–]BoondockUSA 1 point  

If a buyer is willing to pay more, there are motorhomes built on diesel heavy duty truck chassis they could pay a premium for.

You’re missing the point that motorhome chassis aren’t falling apart and there’s plenty of data already out there because it’s so seldom they have a major change. Want to find out about common Ford V10 issues? There’s a ton of info online about them. Want to find out about a Ram chassis with the 6.4 V8 and 645RFE transmission? There’s plenty of info online about them. Still want to find out more? Talk to your mechanic because it’s almost certain they’ve work on one of those powertrains many times over. It may not be in a motorhome body, but in something like a F350 or F450. If your mechanic owns a tow truck, they even own a similar drivetrain used in motorhomes.

The chassis generally isn’t what has issues with motorhomes. It’s the motorhome body and motorhome components that have the issues. If RV manufacturers became that concerned about how people felt about quality of motorhomes, the first step would be to start improving themselves before they try changing the chassis industry. However, motorhome and RV manufacturers don’t listen to us because they keep producing garbage year after year after year. We expect there will be initial quality issues when people get a new motorhome or RV. Thats just how it is, and a corrupt and biased JD Power report isn’t going to change that.

[–]MyDailyMistake 1 point  

Avoid Covid and Post-Covid years. Quality took a huge dump around then.

[–]RevolutionaryGolf720 1 point  

You can’t trust JD Power for things like that. But it doesn’t matter. All motor homes have terrible reliability. None will even hold a candle to Toyota in that area. If you want that kind of reliability, you don’t want a motorhome.

[–]zztop5533 2 points  

My "RV" is a Toyota Sienna. Lol

[–]StayEnvironmental440 1 point  

there is just none made it. Rolling turd boxes

[–]Direct_Layer9347 1 point  

Survey says, all pieces of expensive shit...lol

[–]Odd_Fig_1239 1 point  

Lmao Jd power. You’re kidding right?

[–]ted_anderson 1 point  

There never has been and there never will be because each unit is built by hand and there's not a whole lot of quality control in terms of repeatable processes like they have in mass production of passenger vehicles.

Also the organizations that rank vehicles and do consumer reports/surveys tend to exclude RV's because in most cases the original vehicle is modified to the point where it has completely lost the original manufacturer's integrity. If you look at the door frame of any conversion van, van style RV, or Class C unit, you'll see that it no longer bears the Ford/GM/Mopar manufacturer plate. It's replaced with the RV builder's plate even though it may retain the original VIN.

And so by the time they cut down a cargo van or bolt their body to a cut-away chassis, you can no longer fairly "judge" the quality of a vehicle that's no longer in its original form. The original manufacturer still might still offer their powertrain warranty but everything else is the responsibility of the RV manufacturer.

[–]Kram_Seli 1 point  

I callin B.S on this one....no way a gm or chev would score higher than Honda.

[–]m30guy 1 point  

Dependability is a moot point in class A gas RVs and maybe diesel.

Most rv's live their lives parked up to about 30-50 years

Most don't even see 200k just depends on the owner.

In addition that award is moot and a paid event for companies to get in it.

RV'S and automobiles only share one thing in common and that is the chassis/engine drive line.

[–]Ravio11i 0 points  

There was but they all failed and got mad so now there isn't.

I don't think this is true, but it seems likely.



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